Curse

Tarun · Mar 08, 2007, 09:40 PM // 21:40

Without a challenge, there is no fun. Is it any fun to just be given something out of the blue where you did no work for it? Of course not.

Obey The Cat · Mar 08, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

But it should be possible to obtain razah with npc/heroes only. Imho.

MithranArkanere · Mar 08, 2007, 10:00 PM // 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

Without a challenge, there is no fun. Is it any fun to just be given something out of the blue where you did no work for it? Of course not.

Fun an be perfectly without challenge.

Rollebeetle races.
A challenge? No.
Fun? Lots.

Dragon Arena.
Hard to enter? Nothing easier.
Fun? Most people will shout: Yes!

Any event. Are they challenges? No, they are not, they never are, some evnt quests ccan be made ith lvl 10 character.
Fun? Hell, yes, all of them where.

The only thing you want it to enter missions showing your Razah.
Well. If you want to amaze people, buy a one Dragon.
Everyone have the right to have all heroes, unless the 'hard one' has something special, and he has not. He's just a Ritualist, THE ritualist.
Everyone who bough Nightfall and Factions should have one.

Tarun · Mar 09, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Fun an be perfectly without challenge.

Rollerbeetle Races:
Challenge? Yes, getting first place.
Fun? Depends on if you like it.

Dragon Arena:
Challenge? Yes.
Fun? Depends on if you like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Any event. Are they challenges? No, they are not, they never are

You're overlooking the challenge level of these games. Obviously the challenge level is low. There is still the challenge as I mentioned above for the examples you provided.

Make sense now?

mqstout · Mar 09, 2007, 03:43 AM // 03:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tarun

You're overlooking the challenge level of these games. Obviously the challenge level is low. There is still the challenge as I mentioned above for the examples you provided.

Make sense now?

Please note, we're not asking anyone to affect the difficulty of the DoA part of the game. Your fun (as in unfun to 98% of the player base) will not be affected. We only ask for a ritualist hero that can be acquired outside of that place. It might even make your life better in "elite" content -- there fewer normal players trying to get into parties there.

L|S >+>+G+<+< · Mar 09, 2007, 03:49 AM // 03:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferret

I think it's more about the TIME to get him. If the DoA missions could be done one at a time and remain marked off once you completed each area, then it would be okay. It's the fact that you HAVE to do them all in one go and if you are not part of some super group (or pro-DoA party) its going to (a) take you ages to get a party (especially for some classes) and (b) take you hours to complete.

A lot of people, especially those of us in full time employment and/or married, just cant commit five straight hours to the game (which seems to be how long it can take for a less experienced group). Quite often we only have a few hours in one go that we can commit to the game and that is the main problem.

All it would need is a slight adjustment to either the seperate parts of the DoA main quest remaining as completed after you done each or for the gem requirement to get Razah to be replaced by something else that can be more easily obtained (like 250 margonite masks as i used in my earlier example), everything else can remain as it is.

Unless I misread what you say, the doa missions do get marked off one by one, there is no need to do the whole lot in one go.

mqstout · Mar 09, 2007, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by L|S >+>+G+<+<

Unless I misread what you say, the doa missions do get marked off one by one, there is no need to do the whole lot in one go.

Minor irrelevant detail. Whether it takes you one 15+ hour session or six 4+ hour sessions, it's obscene -- and not even possible then for the vast majority of players, even those who care to try. It all comes down to the absurdity of the issue. This thread is months old with hundreds of posts and still quite active. That says something. What says even more is that nearly everyone here can agree to the same problem, and the same solutions.

Detraya fullvear · Mar 09, 2007, 05:10 AM // 05:10

/notsigned.

if i worked my butt off for a hero i dont even use, you can to :P, the requirements arent that hard, just time consuming. if your not willing to put up the time, you shouldn't reap the rewards..

Well99 · Mar 09, 2007, 05:21 AM // 05:21

As it has been brought up ..the game is suppose to be about fun.It would of been fun to take a rit hero thru NF at the start.The challege is working thru the bugs in the game.Sorry just ran into another but it is common since it is on guildwiki..)
Back on post:I dont understand why Olias and Sin were changed as far as getting them.Yet they didnt bring in a rit?I have a hard time understanding that.Shoot they dropped PVP cost from 50k to 6 k way back when.Why is the need to make PVE RIT so precious.

EternalTempest · Mar 09, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

/signed

I'd even go for a "plain" looking rit that can be recruited easier and leave Razah where he's at.

Detraya fullvear · Mar 09, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

the 50k pvp cost was to avoid him being bought till he was available in pve, it was dropped because most people's faction caps out at 15-20k, and very, veyr, very, very very few people can affoard the 50k.

Well99 · Mar 09, 2007, 09:32 AM // 09:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detraya fullvear

the 50k pvp cost was to avoid him being bought till he was available in pve, it was dropped because most people's faction caps out at 15-20k, and very, veyr, very, very very few people can affoard the 50k.

So that was the reason why.Thanks. I still think they need to put a rit early in the game.It gives folks a chance to have fun thru the whole game with a complete and diverse group of heroes.

cyberjanet · Mar 09, 2007, 09:37 AM // 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detraya fullvear

/notsigned.

if i worked my butt off for a hero i dont even use, you can to :P, the requirements arent that hard, just time consuming. if your not willing to put up the time, you shouldn't reap the rewards..

So you're retired then, are you?
Or haven't you made it to the job market yet?

The fact of the matter is that most normal people are VERY UNWELCOME in DoA, no matter how many hours of Game Play they have behind them. It's not just elitist, it's cliquish. And as lots of people have pointed out, umpteen 4-hour sessions is just not possible if you're living a normal life with work and social obligations. The only reason I want Razah is because he's a Rit. I like the idea of making him a variable profession as the manual describes him, and introducing a plain old Rit hero that's easier to get.

That way those who have suffered through the ignomies of DoA to get him can at least feel vindicated. And the rest of us can get our Rit.

MithranArkanere · Mar 09, 2007, 03:43 PM // 15:43

The entire game has area changes while having certain quest in the Log.

This is the easiest solution, while having the mission to get razah in the log:
- Make the areas easier, by placing less creatures with normal defense.
- Make the drops like the rest of the torment, so you'll have to abandon the quest or come back once it's finished to get Anguish stuff.
- Make the first gems 'variables in the log' so when you use each chest while in the mission, a quest objective is fulfilled, but you don't get a gem in your inventory, to prevent people abandoning the quest and keeping 'easy to get' gems.

So getting Razah would be a bit tunned down, a part of the game, and getting the other things would stay as elite as elitists want.

legion_rat · Mar 09, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

/signed the rit is not that useful over all. You can set Master of secrets or one of the monks up as a pretty good rit healer if you want to, or channeling for that matter. its about having the hero. YOU CAN NOT PUG RAZAH, and none of my allies want to even try for it. Spiders arent hard to get its just time consuming (to the poster mentioning them) I can see the quest for razah being long and difficult but not as bad as it currently is. No hero is worth the price of the four gems.

~the rat~

Mercyful Fate · Mar 10, 2007, 07:24 AM // 07:24

/not signed

I'm sorry, but it was said somewhere on page 1 that Razah was like the new UW spider. This is true to an extent. A number of people won't go through the hassle or cost to access him, and he's not required.

I personally got my gemstones and Hero/Henched the quest relatively problem free. Aside from showing Razah to a few guildies, his skill bar has never been changed and I don't use him at all.

Some things should be difficult to gain, if other players have done it then we know it can be accomplished. Patience is a virtue.

-MF

Orinn · Mar 10, 2007, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercyful Fate

/not signed

I'm sorry, but it was said somewhere on page 1 that Razah was like the new UW spider. This is true to an extent. A number of people won't go through the hassle or cost to access him, and he's not required.

Pets are available to any ranger, and the spider, except for looks, is no different than any other pet. Razah is the only rit hero. is difference from other heroes is significant, while a spider is mechanically the same as a warthog, stalker, lynx, or wolf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercyful fate

I personally got my gemstones and Hero/Henched the quest relatively problem free. Aside from showing Razah to a few guildies, his skill bar has never been changed and I don't use him at all.

So you got him and don't use him? Wonderful, but some people WILL use him. Just because you don't use him, doesn't make him useless. BTW, since when are henchies available in DoA? Are you saying that you and 3 heroes went through these quests with no other humans present? I'd love to see the amazing team build you worked out for that, because DoA is difficult for even experienced players in an all-human group.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mercyful fate

Some things should be difficult to gain, if other players have done it then we know it can be accomplished. Patience is a virtue.
-MF

Some things are difficult to gain, and yet have no mechanical advantage. Razah is not one of these. FoW armor, for all it's cost, works the same as any other max armor. The FoW spider you mentioned, works the same as any other pet (except for bears.) The Urgoz/Mallyx/Kanaxi weapons are the same as any other max damage weapon, and can be replicated.

RAZAH CANNOT BE REPLICATED. I wonder if all caps will get this point across. He offers an advantage to a player who has him, because Razah offers his owner that much more flexibility in building team builds. The difference between 0 and 1 ritualist on a team is a big difference. He is not simply a vanity item like a chaos axe or a shadow bow, he is something that cannot be obtained in any way (in PvE, which is what this thread was about originally) except for doing the elite area. It's a ridiculously difficult and time-consuming path. The people who have done it, great, but locking out a large percentage of the playerbase from ever obtaining Razah.

dronex · Mar 10, 2007, 07:58 AM // 07:58

/not signed
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. Totaly worth the 100k for gems.

The Last Windseeker · Mar 10, 2007, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by dronex

/not signed
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. totally worth the 100k for gems.

I'm have a slight doubt that you acquired him in 20 minutes, using Heroes/Henchies nevertheless. Anyway, I'm fine with Razah staying in the DoA, but I do believe another alternative for a Ritualist Hero should be available to PvE players. This Hero could be accessible in Factions, where a Ritualist Hero should be. If Anet chooses to not add another hero, they should make Razah more easy to get. In any case, Anet should do something to solve the difficulty problem of acquiring a ritualist hero either by adding another ritualist hero,or dealing with the accessibility or Razah.

JoeKnowMo · Mar 10, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by dronex

/not signed
got him with heroes and hench under 20 mins, he looks cool. Totaly worth the 100k for gems.

I guess you're saying that rits are the best class in the game or that every hero is worth 100k... or that cool looks are worth 100k.

So that's a measly 700k to add Razah to all 7 characters on a person's account?

/signed for easier acquisition

As so many others have said, this goes against the core philosophy of GW since it favors grind over skill.

Anyway, Gaile has said they're looking into this. So I expect a change in the next year or so :P